Mormons: A few weeks ago our local mormon missionaries stopped by the house. I knew the previous set but hadn't met these two yet. I always make sure I make my intentions clear with them and let them know what I do for a living so as not to deceive them in any way. After we talked for a few I asked them a few questions that I had for them about mormonism in general. I asked them about archeological proof for the ancient white race they said inhabited North and South America in the 4th century AD. My logic and knowledge of history tells me that if there was a large nation of people around only 1600 years ago there should be some archeological proof it exists. I also learned that for them Special Revelation is above all in their faith system; special revelation that was given to Joseph Smith and written in his writings. I also questioned them a little about the character of Joseph Smith. They weren't offended and gave me a book of mormon before they left and asked me to read several passages. I told them I would and they said they'd come back to talk about it.

They came back a few nights ago and I'm not sure they were ready for my questions. I didn't intend to but I gave them some pretty serious challenges. I wasn't trying to be aggressive to them but sometimes when talking with them I get so angered because I believe they are being deceived. I'm not angry at them but angry at the evil one and angry at the false prophets that founded the LDS church.

In short we had a circular conversation for about an hour. I commended them on their sacrifice to give up their lives for a 2 year mission. I also commended them on their faith and their willingness to put their faith in action. I believe they have sincere hearts and I made sure they knew that. I also told them that from what I can tell of the Bible that the entire Old Testament points to Jesus Christ. Christ himself makes it pretty clear in the gospels that he is the one that was to come and as he left he made clear he would be the one to come. Jesus never told me to look for another prophet that would make complete the true gospel (this is what the LDS church teaches.) In fact I find in the New Testament that the prophets that are to come will be false prophets and to not trust them.

I also told them that I have some serious problems with the "revelation" given to Joseph Smith. I see how some of these "revelations" were awfully convenient for Joseph Smith and in his life. The first that I find awfully convenient is that Mormons use water in their communion or sacrament service. I found this interesting and started doing some research on this. Turns out that before the prohibition the LDS church used wine just like many protestant churches. However during the time of prohibition their began to be an uproar in the church. Turns out that Joseph Smith has a revelation that it is no longer pleasing to God to use wine but rather they should use non alcoholic grape juice or water. Turns out they selected water because they could all agree on it. Oh yeah, it was also ok to use wine grown in the vineyards that were owned by the Mormon church. Even though today Mormons are forbidden to consume alcohol.

There are two other convenient revelations. Joseph would have mens meetings in his home. The men would smoke on their pipes and then when they were done would chew tobacco. Turns out he didn't clean up after himself very well and his wife must have complained to him about having to clean up the mess. Suddenly Joseph Smith has a revelation that tobacco is wrong.

From wikipedia

According to Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, the Word of Wisdom was received in 1833 as a revelation from God. After Smith's death, Brigham Young claimed that the revelation was given in response to problems encountered while conducting meetings in the Smith family home:
"When they assembled together in this room after breakfast, the first they did was to light their pipes, and, while smoking, talk about the great things of the kingdom, and spit all over the room, and as soon as the pipe was out of their mouths a large chew of tobacco would then be taken. Often when the Prophet [Joseph Smith] entered the room to give the school instructions he would find himself in a cloud of tobacco smoke. This, and the complaints of his wife at having to clean so filthy a floor, made the Prophet think upon the matter, and he inquired of the Lord relating to the conduct of the Elders in using tobacco, and the revelation known as the Word of Wisdom was the result of his inquiry."[2]

The final convenient revelation is that of plural marriage in the mormon church. The LDS men began practicing polygamy in the church. It is revealed that this practice is what God wants. The US gov't catches wind of this practice and makes it illegal to practice. It is again revealed by God that this is not what God wants.

Sound like someone wasn't the most in tune with God...wow!

It absolutely boggles my mind. I thanked them for coming and they went on. I want to emphasize that I wasn't going for victory but that I don't agree with them that special revelation should have more power over them that the scriptures of the Bible. It burdens my heart...